More on MTV's 'Dude, This Sucks'

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A follow up post from MTV's Scatological Swinishness;

Teenagers Sue MTV Over Fecal Spraying
'Dude, This Sucks' Includes Shower Rangers Performance in Which Feces Hits the Fans

Los Angeles Daily Journal - Apr 6, 2001

By Donna Huffaker
Daily Journal Staff Writer

LOS ANGELES - If they had had the poop on MTV's show "Dude, This Sucks," two Big Bear teen-agers would have stayed home.

In a lawsuit filed Thursday against the entertainment channel, the girls, represented by attorney Gloria Allred, allege members of a variety act exposed their rear ends and sprayed fecal matter on them as the 14-year-old audience members gagged from the smell.

"We believe that subjecting children without their knowledge and consent and without notice to their parents to such an outrageous and indecent act is completely unacceptable and intolerable and is in conscious disregard of their rights and feelings," Allred said.

In a statement issued Thursday, Brian Graden, president of programming for MTV, admitted the incident and apologized.

Monique Garcia and Kelli Sloat attended a weekend taping of MTV's "Dude, This Sucks," a show that features contestants' bizarre talents, during its "Snowed In" weekend festival on Jan. 21, according to the lawsuit. Garcia and Sloat v. Viacom Inc., SC066019 (L.A. Super. Ct., filed April 5, 2001).

MTV staff did not explain the nature of the upcoming acts, but the girls, seated next to the stage, noticed plastic covers over the cameras, according to the complaint. Nothing covered the audience, the suit states.

The performers, the Shower Rangers, took the stage, dressed in scouting-type uniforms and appeared to act out some kind of campfire scene, the lawsuit states.

The Shower Rangers then turned their backsides to the audience and exposed their naked rear ends, the lawsuit adds. Bending over Garcia and Sloat, one of the Shower Rangers allegedly spread his cheeks and defecated on the girls.

"At first, I was in a state of shock and couldn't believe what happened. Then I smelled an awful odor which made me gag," Sloat said.
"When I saw what was splattered on me and my friends, I was in complete dismay."

Horrified and humiliated, Sloat returned to school to learn that her classmates and some teachers had heard about the incident. The students cracked jokes, she said, and some kids "wouldn't' come near us because ... they said we smelled."

Garcia said she was having a great time at the taping until she started to smell a foul odor. She looked around and noticed she and her friends were "covered in something." Embarrassed, Garcia didn't want to tell her family what happened, she said.

"No one can say or do anything to make the memory of that day ever go away or make it any easier to talk about," she said.

In his statement, Graden apologized for the incident, saying the show's intent was not to harm anyone. He assured Garcia and Sloat the footage from the show, part of a pilot taped on location in the mountains, never has aired and won't.

"This was a terrible incident. It was unintended, and we regret that it happened," he said. "I was not aware of the content of this segment prior to the taping and have taken steps to ensure that an incident of this nature never happens again."

Defendants named in the suit are Viacom, MTV and MTV Networks. The plaintiffs allege intentional infliction of emotional distress, negligence and battery.

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MTV Sued for Potty Prank - Eonline.com

Fri., Apr. 6, 2001 11:25 AM PDT by Josh Grossberg

Maybe MTV needs to dump the toilet humor.

The music channel issued a mea culpa Thursday to two 14-year-old girls who were the victims of a Jackass-style prank in which they were showered with human feces.

The apology came just after the two victims, Monique Garcia and Kelly Sloat, filed a Los Angeles Superior Court lawsuit against the cable net, charging MTV with infliction of emotional distress, negligence and battery.

The incident occurred January 21, during a taping of a pilot for a new show, Dude, That Sucks, in the girls' native Big Bear (a ski resort two hours north of L.A.). It was part of MTV's "Snowed In" weekend special.

According to the suit, Garcia and Sloat were steered to the side of the stage by MTV staffers, who failed to warn the girls that two men dubbed the "Shower Rangers" were planning to defecate on stage. The men came out dressed in "scouting-type uniforms" and "appeared to be acting out some kind of campfire scene."

The girls' attorney, Gloria Allred, said the Shower Rangers then "turned their backsides to the audience [and] opened a flap on the back of their shorts, exposing their naked buttocks." One of the Rangers spread his cheeks and sprayed the girls.

"We were having a good time until the second act of Dude, This Sucks went on," Garcia told reporters during a press conference to announce the lawsuit.

"All of a sudden I was smelling something disgusting and I started to gag," she added. "I looked around at my friends. They were covered in something. As I looked down at myself I realized that I was, too."

The potty prank naturally didn't go over well with the girls. Garcia and Sloat, both middle school students, say they couldn't hide the incident from their classmates who taunted the duo when they got back to school.

"Everyone knew about it, even some of the teachers," said Sloat. "Most of the kids were cracking jokes or wouldn't come near us because, even though we washed off the feces, they said 'we smelled.' I will never ever forget what a horrible experience this was."

For its part MTV, which is already knee-deep in controversy over Jackass stunts, called the Dude prank a "terrible incident" that will never be repeated.

"It was unintended and we regret that it happened," Brian Graden, MTV's programming president, said in a statement. "I was not aware of the content of this segment prior to the taping, and have taken steps to ensure that an incident of this nature never happens again."

Graden also let it be known that the footage from the pilot "has never and will never air" and said the network vows to address the lawsuit "accordingly through the legal process."

"We are sorry if these women were hurt. It is certainly never our intention to hurt anyone," added Graden.

The girls are seeking unspecified compensatory and punitive damages.

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MTV apologizes for defecation stunt -
By BroadCasting & Cable Staff -- Broadcasting & Cable, 4/6/2001 4:16:00 AM MT

The MTV cable network apologized on Thursday to two 14-year-old girls who were sprayed with feces from two rock performers during the taping of a television program dubbed Dude, This Sucks, Reuters reports.

The teenagers sued MTV in Los Angeles Superior Court for infliction of emotional distress, negligence and battery because of the incident which took place last January in Big Bear, a mountain community near the city. Monique Garcia and Kelli Sloat said they were invited to stand near the stage during taping of the show and were given no warning that two men calling themselves the "Shower Rangers" would suddenly defecate on stage. Brian Graden, MTV president of programming, admitted the incident took place and apologized, vowing that the footage will never be aired. Garden said, "This was a terrible incident. It was unintended and we regret that it happened."

MTV's Scatological Swinishness

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MTV's Scatological Swinishness



"Vice is a monster of so frightful mien/ As to be hated needs but to be seen.

Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face/We first endure, then pity, then embrace."

Alexander Pope.




"At 4:30 p.m. on 30 March 2002, Israeli military forces took over Palestinian TV stations when they occupied Ramallah in the West Bank, immediately shutting them down. What followed was a little more unusual. Shortly after occupying the Al-Watan TV station, the Israeli forces began broadcasting pornography over its transmitter. Eventually, according to a report from The Advertiser, an Australian newspaper, the Israelis expanded their cultural offensive against the Palestinian people by broadcasting pornography over two other Palestinian stations, the Ammwaj and Al-Sharaq channels. ...



"[The Israelis] knew that a blind opponent is no opponent at all, and because they knew -- as the ancient Greeks knew -- that lust makes a man blind ... Israel's use of pornography in their battle against the Palestinians isn't so inexplicable."

E. Michel Jones (Editor, Culture Wars magazine)




The swinishness of the art and entertainment mavens who are the purveyors of what passes for "culture" these days was much in evidence in California on 21 January 2001during the taping of a pilot for a new MTV program called Dude, This Sucks. The studio was filled with mostly White, teenaged girls who had come to watch the show. What they got instead was a deluge of excrement sprayed on them by a pair of "Shower Rangers." Yes, dear reader, these trendy little air-headed girls -- whose parents are obviously too demoralized, intimidated, or brain-dead to keep their kids from going to a "show" with such a title and in such a place -- had their bodies sprayed with the same kind of material that MTV pollutes the minds of children with every day. But first a little scatological background information.



It seems that there are quite a number of rather influential Americans who feel warm and cozy about fecal matter. Take the case of Allen Ginsberg; a man obsessed with his anus. In his later years, he loved to talk about all of the uses he had put it to during his miserable lifetime. He also bragged proudly about the many "young boys" he had slept with, and of the numberless soldiers, sailors, and motorcycle enthusiasts who had penetrated his rear end through the years. In fact he even wrote "poetry" about how great it felt having some dude's hot sperm shooting into his mouth or his anus. Ginsberg also had a thing about vomit and his mother. In his "poetry" he tells us about his mom's bowel movements. We get to read about how she vomits all over the bathroom floor while naked, and how, after stretching her old, fat and wrinkled body out on a bed, he wonders whether she wants him to have sex with her. In other words, Ginsberg is to literature what the stuff that sticks to your shoes when you walk through a dog kennel is to your brand new wall to wall carpeting. So naturally, in brainwashed and 'sensitized' America, this debauched degenerate's "poetry" is taught in all of the schools, his "poems" are to be found in all of America's libraries, and there is even a university which houses the "Ginsberg papers." God protect post-1960's America!



Speaking of "debauched degenerates," how about Freud? Think about all of the ink he used up writing about excrement and how ones turds could be shaped into penises by the poor, innocent, little children whose naïve parents were bamboozled into bringing them to this quintessential charlatan and professional culture-destroyer for "treatment." "You see," he undoubtedly told them, assuming an air of unassailable authority, "little Rudolph is playing with his ka-ka because he wants to mold it into a penis so he can have sex with his mommy." And the dummies actually listened to this crap, and paid the exorbitant fees this unethical mind-manipulator charged. It was Freud who wrote: "Defecation affords the first occasion on which the child must decide between a narcissistic and an object-loving attitude. He either parts obediently with his feces, sacrificing them to his love, or else he retains them for the purposes of auto-erotic satisfaction." Did you get that, dear reader? Perhaps you would like to read it again, just to make sure you weren't hallucinating. This was also the man who wrote dozens of letters to his colleague and fellow professional-huckster, Dr. Robert Fliess, insisting that "the size of a woman's vagina is directly related to the size of her nose," and that "[it] is well-known that gastric pains occur especially often in those who masturbate."



Such reprehensible creatures can only gain prominence in societies where Helleno-Christian values and norms have been marginalized or are not taught at all, thereby producing the kind of self-destructive "tolerance to (deviant) diversity" we see all around us today.



Continuing now with our excremental cavalcade, we come to Dr. John Rosen. This exemplar of psychoanalytical quackery also had a frenzied fecal fixation. Naturally, in "tolerant" America, this walking abomination went unchallenged for many years by his equally quackish colleagues in that tightly-knit and incestuous profession of calamity howlers. Not that Dr. Rosen was exceptional, mind you. According to former psychoanalyst, Dr. J .M. Masson (who left the "profession" in disgust, and is now living normally), who wrote: "I am convinced that Rosen was no exception, no aberration. This is therapy." And just what kind of "unexceptional" activity did Dr. Rosen engage in with his dimwitted female patients, stupid and gullible enough to seek treatment through this form of medical mendacity? Why, he would make them suck and lick his anus as part of their "treatment," that's what. And what would our good Dr. Rosen (a rabid disciple of Freud's, by the way) be telling his female patients as they were sucking away? Why he would instruct them to orally "take in as much of his feces as [they] could," and that "this is what it's all about, this is when a baby is at peace, when it is sucking." Remember now, according to Dr. Masson -- who was involved in the "profession" for many years -- this behavior is "no aberration." In other words, this is therapy in America, where there are millions of dumbed-down mooches for such creatures to prey upon. And what did his perturbed and puerile peers in the profession of pestilential puling have to say about Dr. Rosen? Here's a typical evaluation of this man's work by one of his colleagues, a Dr. Paul Federn, who wrote: "Rosen's findings are also another proof of the truth of Freud's tenets. ... I pay my tribute to Dr. Rosen that, as a psychiatrist, he has incorporated Freud's work into his own mind..."



There are, of course, members of the art of malevolent mental-manipulation whose consciences force them to spill the beans once in a while. One of these is the aforementioned Dr. Masson. Another is Dr. H. J. Eysenck, who, after many long years in the "profession," wrote: "There appears to be an inverse correlation between recovery and psychotherapy; the more psychotherapy, the smaller the recovery rate."



Have you figured out yet, dear reader, just what it is that all of these individuals have in common? Yes, that's right, they are all connoisseurs of crap! Just like the head honchos of the TV programming your children are addicted to. One question before we continue with our foray into the minds of professional feces-fetishists and corporate coprophiliacs. If some stranger were to knock on your door and ask you if it were okay for him to come into your home and talk to your children for 3 to 6 hours a day, would you let him? Of course not! Yet this is exactly what happens in most American homes where the tube is turned on and watched by children for about that number of hours daily. Don't you think it is necessary that you know just what kind of depraved and satanic perverts and sodomites are behind the programming your children are watching? Don't you realize that your children's minds are being inundated with a bombardment of music and imagery that is nothing more than a culture-destroying excremental effluence emanating from the tube, just the way the bodies of those girls in California were inundated with real excrement? But more about that incident later.



We recall an article pertinent to our subject which was published a couple of years ago in the British journal, New Statesman & Society, and will try to relate as much of it as we can by memory. Now Britain and the U.S. are actually "sliding toward Gomorrah" at about the same rate of speed, so what follows could have happened -- and, in fact, is happening -- in America as well. The two protagonists in the story go by the names of Gilbert and George, though we've been told that their real names are Sydney and Jacob, and that they come from New York City. The article is actually a bit of "art" criticism about an exhibition held at the well-known South London Gallery, and is titled "Fecal Fulminations." The sub-title is "Gilbert and George's Naked Excrement Pictured as Art." (The reader is kindly requested to mentally substitute the appropriate word starting with "s" wherever the term "excrement" appears. We decided not to reproduce the actual language used in the article.)



The text went something like this: "This exhibition of naked excrement is a collection of huge photos of Gilbert and George's excrement molded and sculptured into varying patterns and subjects. The neo-Victorian building that housed the exhibit could have been the chapel of a Gothic church, with its stained glass windows and vaulted arches. In the case of this exhibit, however, the walls were not hung with medieval tapestries, but with with floor to ceiling pictures of the artists' [!] excrement. Flying excrement, cruciform excrement, penile excrement [remember Freud?], and huge photos of Gilbert and George, bent over, gripping their ankles, and exposing their naked anuses to the viewers."



There are even Biblical references in the catalog for this "art" exhibit. We are told by Gilbert and George that we are "no more than dust or excrement, and came into this world naked." The article goes on to say: "In this work, Gilbert holds George like the body of Christ brought down from the cross in an excremental pietá. Elsewhere, the artists [!] gather at the foot of the cross, like the lamenters in a painting by El Greco, only this time the cross is made of their own excrement."



One of the "cultural" granddaddies of these two turds (who are, however, able to get their filth exhibited in a prestigious art gallery) is, of course, none other than good old Sigmund Freud. Among the innumerable scatological references in his work we find the following: "The anal phase is arrested and pre-genital. The excrement is synonymous with the penis, a means of procreation. Defecation becomes the child's most valuable gift, to be given or withheld."



Compare that, dear reader, to an Homeric Hymn; to a Theogony by Hesiod; to an Ode by Pindar; to one of Plato's dialogues; to a play by Aeschylus, Sophocles, or Euripides; to a poem by Archilochus, Simonides, or Sappho; to one of Aristotle's lectures; to the intellectual genius of Hypatia; to the philosophy and science of an Archimedes, Eratosthenes, or Aristarchus; to the civilizing greatness of an Alexander; to the celestial beauty of an Orthodox liturgy; to the magical wonder of a Byzantine chant; to anything said or written by Samuel Johnson; to a novel by Feodor Dostoevsky; or to an aria by Puccini. Until the day comes when the world's young are more familiar with such names and expressions of true art as these -- rather than to the kind of fecal-smelling scum we've been talking about -- Western Civilization will continue its diabolical slide into swinishness.



And of course, we mustn't forget the record industry. We learned recently that a Harvey Weinstock is the president of the music [!] company that released this gem by a Black rapper group called 2 Live Crew:



Suck my dick ... and make it puke

Lick my ass up and down

Lick it till your tongue turn doo-doo brown.



We are told that these "lyrics" (it actually hurts to use this beautiful Greek word in association with this puke) are rather tame compared to some of the even smuttier stuff that America's kids are listening to. Not to be outdone in the general slide toward swinishness, and thanks to our neo-Hellene "grekili" and the political prostitutes who've been ordained to rule us, this audio-gonorrhea is now infecting the minds, hearts, and psyches of our precious Greek children as well. Ach, if only a world could be created where the ruthlessly criminal purveyors of this poison could be legally tried, found guilty, and condemned to suffer the punishment they deserve. We wonder just how many millions of ordinary people -- people whose children's lives have been destroyed by drugs, alcohol, homosexuality, AIDS, and all of the other pathologies these perverted vermin are knowingly encouraging -- would eagerly volunteer to serve as jurists at such trials.



Speaking of "purveyors of poison," we must not exclude the likes of media boss, Michael Eisner, who took the venerable Disney Corporation of the late Walt Disney and turned it into a cultural sewer. Remember the films Bambi, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Cinderella, Fantasia, and the Disney Hour on television? All of that disappeared after Eisner and his crew took over the company. Nowadays, through such Disney-owned corporations as The Walt Disney Picture Group, headed by Joe Roth, and Miramax Films, run by the Weinstein brothers, we get such raunchy and swinish productions as The Crying Game, Kids, and Priest. We dare any decent and normal reader of these words to view these septic-tank obscenities and not be deeply offended, insulted, and enraged. Yet, these movies continue to be produced and patronized.



Then, of course, we have such pillars of social responsibility as Gerald Levin, the boss of Time Warner, HBO, and Warner Music. Levin's holdings include feature film production companies such as Warner Brothers, Castle Rock, and New Line Cinema. He also lays claim to being the largest magazine publisher in America under Time Warner's publishing division, headed by his editor-in-chief, Norman Pearlstine. The temptation is almost irresistible to continue this catalog of media-manipulators and culture-annihilators; to talk, for instance, about such media bosses as Sam Newhouse or Edgar Bronfman, Jr., and the enormous power they've accumulated: power they are using to bring America to her knees. But their sordid and satanic stories must be held in abeyance for another time. We must get back to the subject of this article, which is about how much such people seem to be obsessed with excrement!



Which brings us to MTV's head honcho, Sumner Redstone (born Murray Rothstein). The size of this media maven's holdings is enormous, and includes such giant corporations as Viacom and Paramount Pictures. But the most important battering ram with which he is attempting to break down the walls of the West's Helleno-Christian heritage is MTV. This is the cultural criminal who gave America's children such role model productions as Beavis and Butthead, and is currently the biggest purveyor of race-mixing trash to White teenagers and sub-teens in America and most of Europe. MTV intrusively batters down the doors of over 210 million homes in over 70 countries, and is the most dominant cultural influence on White teenagers on the planet. (What in God's name does this say about these idiot Americans who've allowed this man -- a high-ranking member of a cabal of nihilists who obviously despise everything White, everything Christian, and everything decent -- to acquire such power? Can one be blamed for holding such bleating sheep in contempt? Do they deserve the unique and wonderful nation they were given by their Founding Fathers?)



It was to Redstone's MTV studios that a group of White teenaged girls came on the 21st of January 2001 to watch the taping of a pilot for a new MTV program titled Dude, This Sucks. A studio lackey told them to stand at a certain place on the stage where two performers, called the "Shower Rangers," were to do their act. The girls were never told just what kind of a performance it would be or why they were to stand at that particular part of the stage. The "Shower Rangers" soon came out wearing Boy Scout uniforms. They then turned their backs to the camera and to the teenaged girls, dropped their pants, bent over, and let loose with a shower of semi-liquid feces which spattered the unsuspecting girls from head to foot. They had, it seemed, dosed themselves with a laxative before the "performance."



To the kind of feces-obsessed slime we've been talking about, this kind of thing is obviously extremely funny. As for Sumner Redstone, we've been told he is a "control freak," and has his finger on practically everything that goes on, so he must have known what was in store for these young girls. But even if he didn't, such an event could only take place in an environment where the lower-echelon flunkies knew that it was in accord with the thinking and spirit of the higher-ups. Let's try to guess just how their sick and twisted minds must have considered this whole situation: 1) These are mostly young, blonde Shikses (naïve Gentile girls), and as such beneath contempt, so let's crap all over them. 2) The "Shower Rangers" dressed as Boy Scouts tells us what Redstone and company think of that organization, which has a mostly White and Christian membership. 3) Think about the title of the pilot, Dude, This Sucks. This is the language of street Blacks; the language Redstone and company want our White, Christian teenagers to become familiar and comfortable with. Just look at the way so many White kids dress nowadays, with the turned-back caps, baggy pants, oversized sneakers, tattoos, dreadlocks, and earrings, and you can see how successful these people have been in their efforts to undermine and destroy America by corrupting her young.



As it turns out, two of the girls who were sprayed and crapped upon were not amused, and neither were their parents. In early April of 2001, they filed suit in Los Angeles Superior Court charging MTV with "infliction of emotional distress, negligence, and battery." Somehow, though, this doesn't seem enough for what the culture destroyers like Redstone are doing every day to undermine and degrade White, Helleno-Christian civilization. The American courts, having come under the pernicious influence of such cosseted mediocrities as Allan Dershowitz and Johnny Cochran, have degenerated into the willing or unwilling enforcers of politically correct fascism, and no longer seem able to serve the interests of the vast majority of White Americans. Only large, peaceful, non-violent, mass demonstrations by Americans who've "had enough" may be able to stem or even reverse this diabolical slide into swinishness that the Redstones, the Gilbert & George's, the Rosen's, the Freuds, the Ginsberg's, and their kind, have foisted upon America and, through America, the world.



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In a related piece titled "World Bank Funds MTV Depravity" in The New American (13 Jan.'03. p.7.), we read the following: "Going to MTV for help on preaching responsible sexual attitudes to young people is akin to going to Louis Farrakhan or the Aryan Nations for help on promoting tolerance and racial harmony. Yet that is what the World Bank has done once again. On December 1st, MTV aired "Staying Alive 4," the fourth in its World AIDS Day documentaries that began in 1998. 'Staying Alive will inform young people about the virus, promote safe lifestyle choices, provide information about local organizations and mobilize youth to overcome the stigma and discrimination surrounding HIV/AIDS and to fight for an end to the spread of HIV/AIDS,' proclaims an MTV promotional.



"Instead, in keeping with the MTV gospel of promiscuity and hypocrisy, the program promotes 'responsible' fornication and sodomy. Arguably, MTV and its imitator channels already share some of the blame for the spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases, by incessantly bombarding their youthful audiences with sexually charged and pornographic images and messages. Nevertheless, the World Bank is lavishing your tax dollars on this project. Other tax-supported sponsors of MTV's 'Staying Alive' are USAID and UNAIDS.



"MTV, [the] broadcast king of the rude, crude, nude, and lewd, plumbed new depths of degeneracy recently with the release in October 2002 of Jackass, a movie giving new meaning to the term 'top grossing film.' 'The R-rated hit, starring Johnny Knoxville, is reportedly causing audiences to be sick in their stomachs.' A Scripps Howard News Service report on Jackass stated on November 1st:



'In the movie, based on the MTV series, a man uses a toilet [to defecate] in the middle of the hardware store.'



'There are other [such] incidents [and] such reactions were not unexpected. During early screenings, a few preview audience members got sick,' said Knoxville. 'At the premiere screening of the film in Hollywood, [vomit] bags were attached to the back of every seat in anticipation. In his hometown of Knoxville, Tenn., there were three confirmed reports of vomiting during a showing a week ago.' The MTV 'star' was pleased. 'We had people puke in the previews, and it's good to see that it is carrying over to the general audience,' Johnny Knoxville reportedly said. According to news reports, Knoxville 'considers the reactions to Jackass to be a compliment.' " (Emphasis added.)



Editor's Note



Have you noticed, dear reader, the common thread that is introduced whenever these creatures are pitching their poison to the boobs, even in those areas of human endeavor considered inviolate and sacred? Once this kind of scum gets involved, have you noticed what kind of a stench from what kind of putrid material seems always to assail your nostrils? Did you get that? Whenever they acquire power, prestige, or influence, their minds automatically go to sh.t! When they program "entertainment" for our children, sh.t is automatically on the agenda. Sh.t and us; us and Sh.t! Has it penetrated, finally, just what these people think of you, your spouse, your kids, your parents, your world, your civilization, your religion...??? SH.T!!! that's what!!!.



An horrendous development



With a fanfare one would expect only for the Second Coming, the "Grekili" channel, Tempo TV, in the spring of 2002, began announcing that it would be offering MTV programming in Greece starting in mid-summer. The harm this will do to the traditionally tightly-knit Greek family can easily be imagined. We can now look for an increase in drug use, race mixing, homosexuality, AIDS, divorce, pre-teen, teen, and post-teen promiscuity, child molestation, alcohol abuse, sub-culture dress codes, and lots of gyrating genital organs and naked rumps of all colors and sizes to invade the sanctity of the Greek home.



IT IS BEYOND THE COMPREHENSION OF THE STAFF OF THIS WEBSITE AS TO WHY THE PURVEYORS OF THIS TOXIC VISUAL EXCREMENT ARE NOT MADE TO PAY FOR THE SUFFERING AND DEATHS OF THE INNOCENT CHILDREN THEY CORRUPT BY THIS HATEFUL, OBSCENE, AND DESTRUCTIVE PROGRAMMING.

"Capitalism to follow Communism in collapse"

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Capitalism to follow Communism in collapse, spokesman for the Moscow Patriarchate says

Moscow, August 8 2007, Interfax - A representative for the Russian Orthodox Church has foretold collapse of the Capitalist system.

‘Nazism fell, Communism fell, and so Capitalism is going to fall in a few decades. The political framework of capitalism is doomed,’ the vice-chair of the Moscow Patriarchate Department for External Church Relations Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin said Wednesday during the press conference at Interfax’s central office in Moscow.

According to him, ‘no society based of only priorities earthly human life is capable of surviving.’ ‘Any society that declares the man to be God is doomed. Capitalism and its political system is doomed just as Marxism and Nazism and their political systems were doomed,’ he said.

In this connection he added that ‘discussion about place of religion of the life of society and about what should be the basis of the society, is not finished; it only begins.’

According to him, ‘the historic aspects touched during the discussion, unmask the mythic belief that a social system, based on earthly human interests, is ideal.’

The ‘scientific worldview’ myth has already been unmasked during the discussion, Chaplin said. ‘Science and worldview is not the same. The scientific ideology and what was declared to be ‘scientific worldview’ failed to bring about a good social order and explain the origin of things,’ he said.

According to Chaplin, ‘any attempt to base social order on natural sciences or humanities means ideologization.’ ‘There cannot be a universal ideology, a science-based worldview, neither can such a view be made an obligatory non-alternative basis for education. Scientific ideology cannot be an obligatory state ideology without any other choice,’ he said.

Meanwhile Fr. Vsevolod noted that ‘the church should not be an instrument of the authorities, a part of the state machine.’ ‘However the church cannot be separated from the society, since the church includes not only men in black but also artists, writers, businesspeople, soldiers, and all who identify themselves as Orthodox Christians. Of course they have influenced and will influence the life of state and society,’ he said.

‘It would be wrong and contrary to our modern constitutional principles to prevent that,’ he said.

U.S. Troops Fighting For Rapists

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WHY WE FIGHT
U.S. Troops Die For Rapists

LOS ANGELES--American soldiers serving in Vietnam wondered what they were fighting for. U.S. troops in Afghanistan don't have that problem. They know exactly what they're fighting for: rapists.

After President Obama's coming "Afghan surge" there will be 72,000 soldiers in Afghanistan. Their primary mission is to prevent Afghans from overthrowing the unpopular regime of Hamid Karzai, the former oil consultant installed by George W. Bush when the U.S. occupation began nearly eight years ago.

America's media repeatedly claimed that Afghan women would be better off under the U.S.-supported Northern Alliance puppet government headed by Karzai than under the Taliban. But when I went to Afghanistan and asked women what they thought, they had a different story. The defeat of the Taliban brought about the collapse of law and order, making life even more dangerous, especially for women. "Under the Taliban," a woman told me, "I watched rapists being executed. Now I see them in the government."

The Afghan women's rights group RAWA has repeatedly told anyone willing to listen that there hasn't been much improvement for women and girls since the U.S. occupation began in 2001. But no one--least of all left-of-center Americans eager to embrace the Afghan war--has wanted to hear what they had to say. "Most women still wear the all-encompassing burqa through fear of attack and social pressure, a third of women in Kabul do not leave the house, forbidden from doing so by the male members of the family, and it is still almost impossible for women to get a divorce," reported The Sunday Herald in 2005.

Liberal Democrats who cling to Afghanistan as "the good war" the U.S. should be fighting are being forced to confront the ugly truth about their ally. Karzai has signed a law that states that "women cannot leave the house without their husbands' permission, that they can only seek work, education or visit the doctor with their husbands' permission, and that they cannot refuse their husband sex," reported the British newspaper The Guardian on March 31st.

The Shiite Personal Status act applies only to devotees of the Shia branch of Islam, which account for between 10 and 20 percent of the population. How can a secular democratic state have different laws depending on a citizen's faith? The answer is: It can't. Afghanistan isn't secular or democratic. The "new" Afghanistan's constitution is based on Sharia law--exactly as it was under the Taliban. But the U.S. media has purposefully failed to report the icky truth about our ally.

The new law requires women to have sex with their husbands at least once every four days unless they are sick or menstruating. "Obedience, readiness for intercourse and not leaving the house without the permission of the husband are the duties of the wife," reads the law of a nation ostensibly invaded by U.S. troops in part to liberate Afghan women. "As long as the husband is not traveling, he has the right to have sexual intercourse with his wife every fourth night," it says.

Afghan Senator Humaira Namati calls the rape bill "worse than during the Taliban" and said it was rammed through parliament without debate. "Anyone who spoke out was accused of being against Islam," she said. Several hundred women protesting the law on the streets of Kabul were viciously assaulted by men as police stood back and watched.

In fairness to the responsible male legislators, they did add a provision to protect Shiite women from "dead bed": Afghan men have to put out "at least once every four months."

Karzai signed legalized rape into law in order to appease right-wing legislators in an election year. After international criticism, however, he began backpedaling with the lamest of all possible reasons: he didn't read the bill before he was for it.

"I was not aware of what I had signed," Afghan parliamentarian Sabrina Saqib said Karzai told her. The legislation "has so many articles," Karzai told CNN. "Now I have instructed, in consultation with clergy of the country, that the law be revised and any article that is not in keeping with the Afghan constitution and Islamic Sharia must be removed from this law."

As Karzai BSes for the cameras, hundreds of Afghan women languish in prisons around the country. Their crime? They're teen brides, some as young as 10, who ran away from much older husbands who purchased them. "In President Hamid Karzai's Afghanistan, women are still imprisoned for running away from home," reports The Sunday Herald.

Nice theocracy you got there, Mullah Karzai.

Remember this column the next time you watch a flag-draped coffin returning from Afghanistan. The young man inside that box didn't die for nothing. He died to protect rapists.

COPYRIGHT 05/07/2009 TED RALL

Citations Pertaining to Homosexuality from Greek & Other Sources

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From GrecoReport.com 2004

Citations Pertaining to Homosexuality from Greek & Other Sources

It was decided that this compilation of citations pertaining to the subject of homosexuality and pederasty will, of necessity, have to be an ongoing "work in progress." The sources are many, and it will require a great deal of time to produce anything resembling a comprehensive survey of this much misunderstood and mischievously maligned subject.

"There is a love that makes men virtuous / And chaste, an envied gift. Such love I crave."

Euripides

Aeschines

Aeschines was born ca. 390 B.C. His father was Atrometus, his mother was Glaucothea. He was the second of three sons, and was performing his service as an Athenian cadet when the battle of Leuctra plunged Hellas into the Theban wars which were to last almost a decade. His bravery in the field was so distinguished that he received a wreath of honor and was appointed one of two messengers to carry the news to Athens. By age 42, he was a man of influence in political affairs, and, because of his unquestioned patriotism and skills as an orator, was chosen as a member of a ten-man delegation to treat with Phillip of Macedon (father of Alexander the Great) who was threatening all of Hellas. The famous orator Demosthenes was also a part of that group. The astute Phillip was, it seems, too shrewd for Aeschines, who returned to Athens convinced that "peace in our time" was possible with the Macedonian king; as a result, he soon found himself under suspicion of having been bribed by Phillip. His principal accuser was Demosthenes, who was joined in an action against Aeschines by Timarchus, a prominent politician of the anti-Macedonian faction. The Contra Timarchus (Katá Timárkou) speech is Aeschines' defense against the unwarranted charges against him. He was acquitted, but Demosthenes became his implacable enemy.

Aeschines based his defense on the law which denied any participation in public affairs by homosexuals and pederasts. According to the law of "same-sex companionship" (grafí etairísios), any citizen could bring charges against a person suspected or known to be a sodomite or a pederast. Aeschines will attempt to prove that Timarchus did not have the civil right to bring charges against him because his "lifestyle"-- that of a "passive" homosexual [i.e., a kínaidos, the most repulsive and destructive form of homosexuality, according to the Greeks] -- legally rendered him a non-person according to Athenian law.

Aeschines' speech represents the fullest account we have of the laws of Athens regarding homosexuality and pederasty. The excerpts which follow are from Aeschines' Contra Timarchus.

Aeschines tells the clerk of the court to read various laws pertaining to pederasty and homosexuality to the jury so as to provide them with the background information they'll need in order to render judgment. He begins with a law protecting young boys from being corrupted in school, because "when a boy's natural disposition is subjected at the very outset to vicious training, the product of such wrong nurture will be ... a citizen like this man, Timarchus":

Law

The teachers of the boys shall open the school-rooms not earlier than sunrise,

and they shall close them before sunset. No person who is older than the boys

shall be permitted to enter the room while they are there, unless he be a son of

the teacher, a brother, or a daughter's husband. If any one enter in violation of

this prohibition, he shall be punished with death. The superintendents of the

gymnasia shall under no conditions allow any one who has reached the age of

manhood to enter the contests of Hermes together with the boys. A gymnasiarch

who does permit this and fails to keep such a person out of the gymnasium, shall

be liable to the penalties prescribed for the seduction of free-born youth. Every

choregus who is appointed by the people shall be more than forty years of age.(12.)

Aeschines then instructs the clerk to read the law pertaining to the "outrage" of a child.

Law

If any Athenian shall outrage a free-born child, the parent or guardian of the

child shall prosecute him before the Thesmothetae, and shall demand a

specific penalty. If the court condemn the accused to death, he shall be

delivered to the constables and be put to death the same day. If he be con-

demned to pay a fine, and be unable to pay the fine immediately, he must

pay within eleven days after the trial, and he shall remain in prison until payment

is made. The same action shall hold against those who abuse the persons of

slaves. (16.)

He explains the fact that even slaves are protected under Athenian law because "in a democracy that man is unfit for citizenship who outrages any person whatsoever." He then asks the clerk to read that part of the law having to do with youths "who recklessly sin against their own bodies." The laws are most concerned with morality, he explains, because "that state will be best administered in which orderly conduct is most common":

Law

If any Athenian shall have prostituted his person, he shall not be permitted to

become one of the nine archons, nor to discharge the office of priest, nor to

act as an advocate for the state, nor shall he hold any office whatsoever, at home

or abroad, whether filled by lot or by election; he shall not be sent as a herald;

he shall not take part in debate, nor be present at the public sacrifices; when the

citizens are wearing garlands, he shall wear none; and he shall not enter within the

limits of the place that has been purified for the assembling of the people. If any

man who has been convicted of prostitution act contrary to these prohibitions, he

shall be put to death. (21.)

Aeschines then refers to the section in the law titled "Scrutiny of Public Men." He addresses the jury directly on this part of the law which sets forth the requisite behavior of those who would hold public office: "[F]or the man who in his youth was led by shameful indulgence to surrender honorable ambition, that man [say the lawgivers] ought not in later life to be possessed of the privileges of citizenship."

(It is interesting to think about the sorry specimens who hold or have held office in the U.S. and Greece, and who would have been automatically excluded from contaminating a public trust had we similar restrictions today. "Slick Willie" for instance, would never have been allowed to hold even the position of a "night soil collector" in Athens. As far as "Dubbya" or "Georgaki" Papandreou are concerned, it is beyond the ability of this writer to imagine such an inarticulate halfwit as Bush rising beyond the position of an insignificant public official -- something like being in charge of seeing to it that there were sufficient buckets available for the collection of "night soil -- in some remote region of Greece. As for "Georgaki," he too would most likely have wound up as the ancient Greek equivalent of a hair dresser. As for a creature like the reprehensible representative from Massachusetts, Barney Frank, he would have been put to death and his living quarters fumigated and purified by the priests.)

When reading about the kind of behavior demanded of their politicians by the ancient Greeks (a sample of which follows), think about how such demands would have impacted on the morally bankrupt and intellectually challenged misfits we've had battening down upon us in recent decades.

Scrutiny of Public Men

If any one attempts to speak before the people who beats his father or mother,

or fails to support them or to provide a home for them. ... [s]uch a man is forbidden

to speak. ... Because if such a man is mean toward those whom he ought to honor

as the gods, how, pray, ... will such a man treat the members of another household,

and how will he treat the whole city? ... Or the man who has failed to perform all

the military service demanded of him, or who has thrown away his shield (rípsaspis), ...

[because] if you are such a coward that you are unable to defend [your city], you

must not claim the right to advise her either. ... Or the man who has squandered his

patrimony or other inheritance. ... For ... the man who has mismanaged his own

household will handle the affairs of the city in a like manner; [for] to the lawgiver it

did not seem possible that the same man could be a rascal in private life, and in

public life a good and useful citizen. ... Or the man ... who has debauched or

prostituted himself. ... For the man who has made traffic of the shame of his own

body, ... would be ready to sell the common interests of the city also. (28 -31.)

Aeschines then summoned the jury to remember their [Athenian] ancestors, who were "stern ... toward all shameful conduct," and considered the purity of their children and fellow citizens to be "precious." He goes on to give an example regarding the way the Lacedaemonians [Spartans] felt about such matters. He justifies his praising the Spartans by quoting an old Athenian saying which teaches that it is "well to imitate virtue even in a foreigner." [kalón d' estí daí tás xenikás mimeísthai.]

When a certain man had spoken in the assembly of the Lacedaemonians, a man

of shameful life but an exceedingly able speaker, and when, we are told, the

Lacedaemonians were on the point of voting according to his advice, a man came

forward from the Council of Elders. ... and vehemently rebuked the Lacedaemonians

and denounced them in words like these: That the homes of Sparta would not long

remain unravaged if the people followed such advisers in their assemblies.

Aeschines then asks the jurors to consider whether or not such a dissolute and "low-lived" degenerate as Timarchus -- "a creature with the body of a man defiled with the sins of a woman. ... [a] man who in despite of nature has sinned against his own body" -- would ever have been allowed to take part in the public affairs of the Lacedaemonians; implying, of course, that neither should he be allowed to inject his poison into the political lifeblood of Athens. If the jurors were to make the mistake of not finding Timarchus guilty, he continues, "what then, pray , are you going to answer ... when your sons ask you whether you voted for conviction or acquittal? When you acknowledge that you set Timarchus free, will you not at the same time be overturning our whole system of training the youth? ... For you must not imagine, fellow citizens, that the impulse to wrong doing is from the gods; nay, rather it is from the wickedness of men. ... Therefore, fellow citizens, remove from among us such natures, for so shall you turn the aspirations of the young toward virtue."

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Flaceliere, Robert.

On pages 49 -50 of his authoritative and well documented book Love in Ancient Greece (trans. by James Cleugh. Frederick Muller Ltd., London; 1962), Flaceliere writes: "[I]t appears extremely likely that homosexuality of any kind was confined to the prosperous and aristocratic levels of ancient society. The masses of peasants and artisans were probably scarcely affected by habits of this kind, which seem to have been associated with a sort of snobbery. The available texts deal mainly with the leisured nobility of Athens. But they may give the impression that pederasty was practiced by the entire nation. The subject, however, of the comedy by Aristophanes entitled Lysistrata suggests that homosexuality was hardly rampant among the people at large. It would be an error to think so. ... There was nothing particularly 'Greek' about homosexual feeling. The nation in antiquity was by no means alone in providing illustrations of inversion (see note below), which has been practiced at almost all times and in almost all countries. ... In the pre-Christian era, the case of Sodom is well known. Nor were the Persians, the Etruscans, the Celts or the Romans ignorant of homosexuality. But its existence among these peoples was kept more or less secret on account of the discredit which attached to it. But in Greece, though pederasty was forbidden by law in most cities, it had become so fashionable [among the artists and aristocrats] that no one troubled to conceal it."

On page 140 he writes: "The permanent popularity of courtesans [hetairai] in ancient Greece is surely the best proof that homosexuals were either not consistently so or not particularly numerous. except in one class of society and over quite a limited period." (Emphasis added.) We have already suggested that inversion was never very prevalent

Note: Inversion: "Assumption of the sexual role of the opposite sex; homosexuality." The American College Dictionary. Random House, New York; 1966.

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Julianus, Flavius Claudius

Julian ("the Apostate") was born in 332 A.D. He was the son of Julius Constantius, the half-brother of Constantine. He was brought up in a remote fortress in Cappadocia and given a pious Christian education. But Julian acquired from his tutor, the eunuch Mardonius, a passion for the classics and for the old gods. In 351, while studying at Ephesus, he came under the influence of the well-known and respected pagan philosopher Maximus. After Ephesus, he went on to Athens to complete his education. Julian openly declared his paganism as soon as he became emperor. He then went on to proclaim open toleration for all religions, restored the confiscated lands of the pagan temples, and had those which had been destroyed rebuilt. One of his rare anti-Christian measures was to forbid Christian professors to teach the classics. His eastern borders were continually being harassed by the Persians, and, in 363, he marched at the head of his army to confront them. During one of the ensuing battles he was mortally wounded.

Julian's religious beliefs were the Neoplatonist monotheism expounded by his friend Sallustius, author of the Neoplatonic piety known as De deis et mundo. Julian was a brave military leader and a scholar of the first rank who was superbly educated in Greek paideia. On the subject in question, he writes:

Then never think, my friend, that you are free while your belly rules you and the part

below the belly, since you will then have masters who can either furnish you with the

means of pleasure or deprive you of them. (Oration VI, 196 - c.)

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Plato

Plato was born ca. 429 and died ca. 347 B.C. He was the son of Ariston and Perictione, both of whom were Athenians of distinguished lineage. His philosophy and writings show the enormous influence Socrates had upon him, both by his life and by his unjust death. In his youth he considered a political career, but the sorry spectacle he witnessed, whether the "conservative" or the "democratic" party was in power, convinced him that the only real hope would be when philosophers became rulers or rulers became philosophers. He traveled extensively after Socrates was put to death by the "democratic" mob, finally settling down near the grove of Academus, about a mile outside the walls of Athens. Here, in 385 B.C., Plato opened the "Academy" of Athens: the first university in Europe, if not the world. The school remained in continuous operation for over 900 years. It was finally closed by order of the Byzantine emperor, Justinian, in 529 A.D. This makes it the oldest university in the world, pre-dating the University of Constantinople by 800 years or so, and the Universities of Paris and Oxford by about 1500 years.

His comments regarding homosexuality leave absolutely no doubt as to what Plato (whose been justifiably described as the most intelligent man who ever lived) thought about this perversion. As we read his thoughts on this subject, one gets the impression that he would most certainly agree with the Christian view that "we must love the sinner, though we hate the sin."

And whether one makes the observation in earnest or in jest, one certainly should not

fail to observe that when male unites with female for procreation the pleasure experienced

is held to be due to nature, but contrary to nature when male mates with male or female

with female, and that those first guilty of such enormities were impelled by their slavery

to pleasure. (Laws, I. 636-c.)

Come then, suppose we grant that this practice [homosexuality] is now legalized, and

that it is noble and in no way ignoble, how far would it promote virtue? Will it engender

in the soul of him who is seduced a courageous character, or in the soul of the seducer

the quality of temperance? Nobody would ever believe this; on the contrary, as all men

will blame the cowardice of the man who always yields to pleasures and is never able

to hold out against them, will they not likewise reproach that man who plays the woman's

part with the resemblance he bears to his model? Is there any man, then, who will ordain

by law a practice like that? not one, I should say, if he has a notion of what true law is.

(Laws, VIII. 836 d - e.)

This law ... is the cause of countless blessings. For, in the first place, it follows the

dictates of nature, and it serves to keep men from sexual rage and frenzy and all kinds

of fornication, and from all excess in meats and drinks, and it ensures in husbands

fondness for their own wives. (Laws, VIII. 839 a - b.)

I maintain ... that our citizens must not be worse than fowls and many other animals

which are produced in large broods, and which live chaste and celibate lives without

sexual intercourse until they arrive at the age for breeding; and when they reach this

age they pair off, as instinct moves them, male with female and female with male; and

thereafter they live in a way that is holy and just, remaining constant to their first

contracts of love: surely our citizens should at least be better than these animals.

(Laws, VIII. 840 d - e.)

Again, in Plato's Laws, in a scene laid in Crete, and on a walk from Cnosus to the grotto of Zeus on Mount Ida on a long midsummer's day, the conversation related here between three old men took place. Of the three, one is an Athenian (Stranger), one (Clinias) a Cretan, and one (Megillus) a Spartan. The protagonist is the Athenian (Stanger), and nearly all the talking is done by him. ... "The choice of their nationality, however, is significant, since the main body of the laws framed for the Model City [in their dialogue] is derived from the codes actually in force in Athens, Sparta, and Crete" (p. viii in the introduction. Emphasis added).

The three elderly men are discussing the ways that which is "honorable and shameful" shall be established. And [the ways] those who are "of depraved character, whom we describe as 'self-inferior,'... shall be hemmed in by three kinds of force and compelled to refrain from law-breaking."

Clinias: "What kinds?"

Athenian Stranger: "That of godly fear, and that of love of honor, and that which is desirous of fair forms of soul, not of fair bodies. The things I now mention are, perhaps, like the visionary ideals in a story; yet in fair truth, if only they were realized, they would prove a great blessing in every State. Possibly, should God so grant, we might forcibly effect one of two things in this matter of sex-relations, -- either that no one should venture to touch any of the noble and freeborn save his own wedded wife, nor sow any unholy and bastard seed in fornication, nor any unnatural and barren seed in sodomy, -- or else we should entirely abolish love for males, and in regard to that for women, if we enact a law that any man who has intercourse with any women save those who have been brought to his house under the sanction of Heaven and holy marriage, whether purchased or otherwise acquired, if detected in such intercourse by any man or woman, shall be disqualified from any civic commendation, as being really an alien, -- probably such a law would be approved as right. So let this law -- Whether we ought to call it one law or two -- be laid down concerning sexual commerce and love affairs in general, as regards right and wrong conduct in our mutual intercourse due to these desires."

Megillus: "For my own part, Stranger, I should warmly welcome this law" (VIII. 841 c - e).

Plato talks about how homosexuals must worry about being found out:

[If] you are afraid of public opinion, and fear that if people find out your love affair

you will be disgraced. (Phaedrus, 231 e.)

Plato seems to have had a puritanical streak, because, in his Epistle Seven (326 b - d), he writes rather testily that:

[If] one's existence is spent in gorging food twice a day and never sleeping alone

at night, and all the practices which accompany this mode of living [, then] ... not a

single man of all who live beneath the heavens could ever become wise ... nor would

he ever be likely to become temperate; and the same may truly be said of all other

forms of virtue. And no State would ever remain stable under laws of any kind, if its

citizens, while supposing that they ought to spend everywhere to excess, yet believed

that they ought to cease from all exertion except feastings and drinkings and the

vigorous pursuit of their amours. Of necessity these States never cease changing into

tyrannies, oligarchies, and democracies, and the men who hold power in them cannot

endure so much as the mention of the name of a just government with equal laws.

Note: Plato's warning about a State where self-indulgence is the norm sinking inexorably into a tyranny, oligarchy or democracy is pertinent because, in the ancient Greek world, these were considered the worst possible forms of government. Tyranny is rule by one man, oligarchy is rule by a privileged elite, and democracy is rule by the mob which is easily swayed by demagogues. The best forms of government are monarchy, aristocracy, and constitutional republic (cf. The Statesman, 291 d ff, & 302 b ff. ed.).

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Plutarch

Plutarch of Chaeronea was born ca. 50 A.D. and died ca. 120 A.D. He was the son of Autobulus, and grandson of Lamprias, who along with other members of his family, figure often in his work. His was a well established family in Chaeronea, and most of Plutarch's life was spent in his home town, though he did visit Egypt and Italy, and lectured for a time at Rome. His wide circle of friends included many influential men in the political arena, as well as many Greek men of letters. For the last thirty years of his life he was a priest at Delphi. He was extremely devout and pious, and a profound student of human nature and history. Up until very recently, a man was not considered educated unless he could read Plutarch, Thucydides, and Homer (at the very minimum) in the original. Plutarch, especially, was always to be found on the "great books" list of educators who really cared about turning out well rounded students who would, by reading Plutarch and the Greeks in general, be well-equipped to face any challenge in their lives, and to enjoy a high quality of life as well. Plutarch achieved no small influence within governing circles in his lifetime, and was especially instrumental in promoting the concept of a partnership between Greece, the educator, and Rome, the great power, and of the compatibility of the two patriotisms.

About Alexander the Great, Plutarch has this to say:

[W]hen ... the governor of the coast-lands of Asia Minor wrote to Alexander that

there was in Ionia a youth, the like of whom for bloom and beauty did not exist, and

inquired in his letter whether he should send the boy on to him, Alexander wrote

bitterly in reply, "Vilest of men, what deed of this sort have you ever been privy to

in my past that now you would flatter me with the offer of such pleasures?" (On The

Fortune of Alexander, 333 a - b.)

About the Spartans, Plutarch wrote:

Affectionate regard for boys of good character was permissible, but embracing them

was held to be disgraceful, on the ground that the affection was for the body and not

for the mind. Any man against whom complaint was made of any disgraceful embracing

was deprived of all civic rights for life. (Ancient Customs of the Spartans, 7. 237 - c.)

That the law against pederasty was violated on occasion there can be no doubt, but there is also no doubt that it was illegal. For instance, Plutarch writes:

[Pederasty] needs a fair pretext for approaching the young and beautiful, so it pretends

friendship and virtue. It covers itself with the sand of the wrestling-floor, it takes cold

baths, it plays the highbrow and publicly proclaims that it is a philosopher and disciplined

on the outside -- because of the law. (Dialogue on Love, 752 - a. Emphasis added.)

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Thornton, Bruce S.

In the preface (p. xiii) of his book titled Eros: The Myth of Ancient Greek Sexuality, Dr. Thornton, a professor of Classics at California State University, Fresno, states in no uncertain terms that the Greeks "were horrified and disgusted by the idea of a male being anally penetrated by another male, and called such behavior 'against nature.' "

On page 99, he cites Plato's dialogue Georgias [491e -92a & 494e] to make a great point. He is talking about Socrates' conversation with Callicles, whose hedonistic philosophy Socrates disagrees with. To counter Callicles' argument that a man should give full reign to his passions, and not worry about convention, Socrates exclaims: "[What about] the life of passive homosexuals (kinaidon), isn't it awful and shameful and wretched? Or will you have the audacity to say that they are happy, if they have enough of the things they need?" To which a shocked Callicles replies: "Aren't you ashamed ... at leading the discussion to such a topic?" (Emphasis added.).

The point Dr. Thornton makes is that here is the sophist, Callicles, who represents the "avant-garde" of cosmopolitan thought in the world of ancient Greece, who is "shocked" that Socrates would bring up such a disgusting subject as male homosexuality during a philosophical discussion. Dr. Thornton asks (sarcastically): "Aren't these men Greeks, those enthusiasts of pederasty, the liberated icons of 'Greek Love?' "

On page 100, Dr. Thornton writes:

Very little, if any, evidence from ancient Greece survives that shows adult males

(or females) as "couples" involved in an ongoing, reciprocal sexual and emotional

relationship in which sex with women (or men) is moot and the age difference is

no more significant than it is in heterosexual relationships.

On page 102, Dr. Thornton refers to the myth of "Chrysippus, the son of Pelops -- hence uncle to Agamemnon and Menelaus -- whom Laius, father of Oedipus, kidnapped and raped. Chrysippus then killed himself because of 'shame' (aischunes), and Hera -- goddess of marriage -- sent the Sphinx to Thebes as punishment. Another punishment for this act was the death of Laius at his son Oedipus's hands."

The question raised by this myth (which was the subject of a lost play by Euripides titled Chrysippus), is why would the young Chrysippus kill himself if man/boy love were an accepted practice? Why would the goddess Hera send the Sphinx to Laius' hometown, Thebes, as punishment for what its king did, if what he did were not considered an abomination? An abomination which was also the root cause of the curse of the house of Oedipus which would come down upon the entire family in such a tragic way in the future. Also, if this was an accepted practice among the Greeks, why would Euripides write a whole play about it? All good questions, which lead to only one conclusion: Although such practices did occur, they were abhorred and severely punished by the Greeks when they were discovered!

On page 163, Dr. Thornton talks about a scene from Xenophon"s Symposium -- this being the name of the drinking and eating parties for the refined and educated men of Athens, where philosophical questions were raised and discussed. Dr. Thornton refers to the part where

After the philosophical conversation, two actors come into the room and reenact

the marriage of Ariadne and the god Dionysus, who fell in love with the Cretan

maiden after she had been abandoned by Theseus on the island of Naxos during

their flight from Crete. The actors do such a good job of passionately kissing and

declaring their love for one another that the men at the dinner party are sexually

aroused, with the result that "the unmarried men swore that they would marry, while

the married men mounted their horses and rode home to their wives, so they could

find pleasure with them." (Xen. Symp.9.7.)

The point being, of course, that here we have a gathering of the literati of Athens; the poets, philosophers, and artists, who would be expected to be at the forefront of sexual experimentation and innovation. Yet, instead of these men satisfying their lust by sodomizing one another, the unmarried ones vow to marry, and the married ones rush home to make love to their wives. Somehow, this just doesn't jibe with the image the concoctors of creative history have managed to imprint upon the minds of present-day youth. Unfortunately for them, however, Xenophon, who had no reason to write anything other than that which would have struck his readers as being a natural reaction to the stimulus these men had experienced, was telling the unvarnished truth.

On page 268, in what is a concise summation of the entire argument of his book, Dr. Thornton compares the naive and destructive modern-day sexual idiocies encapsulated in Dr. Ruth Westheimer's statement that "... a child knowing about his or her body will be able to deal with the pressure to have sex," with one by "a much more acute psychologist, Euripides, when he has his Phaedra say, 'We know the good and recognize it, but we cannot bring it to pass' [Hipp. 380-81]. When the flames of Eros rage in the blood, knowledge, like Prospero's oaths, is just 'straw for the fire.' "

Which means, dear reader, that the Greeks, like all human beings, were subjected to temptations that its society, in seeking to protect and perpetuate itself, deemed to be unnatural and illegal. The fact that there were Greeks who yielded can in no way be interpreted as meaning that the practices which gave rise to these temptations were in accord with the norms and customs of the society that banned them. Yet, there are those who make this illogical argument for what we can only assume to be ulterior motives.

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U. S. Supreme Court

The U. S. Supreme Court ruled in Bowers vs. Hardwick (1986) that the "freedom" to commit sodomy does not exist under the Constitution, even if done in the privacy of one's own home. Justice Burger stated in his opinion: "Homosexual sodomy was a capital crime under Roman law.. During the English Reformation, the first English statute criminalizing sodomy was passed Blackstone described 'the infamous crime against nature' as an offense of 'deeper malignity' than rape, an heinous act, 'the very mention of which is a disgrace to human nature,' and 'a crime not fit to be named.' "

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Xenophon

Xenophon was the son of Gryllus of the Athenian deme Erchia, and his wife Philesia. He lived from ca. 428 to ca. 354 B.C. He approached maturity at around the time of the oligarchic revolution at Athens, and may have taken part in the costly sea battle of Arginusae, which a nearly totally exhausted Athens won against Sparta, but which was the cause of many unhappy political events.. He accepted an invitation by Proxenus to join him in an expedition to Asia Minor in the service of Cyrus who was trying to gain the Persian throne. After the failure of the expedition Xenophon was elected general, and it was then, after many hardships and difficulties, that he successfully led the Greek army of mercenaries out of Asia and back to Hellas. This "coming up" out of Asia is told to us in his famous work titled "The Anabasis." After campaigning in Thrace and again in Asia minor, he was exiled from Athens in the year 399. This was the year of Socrates' death, and anyone who was known to have been close to the great man was bound to have political problems. He subsequently went to Sparta, and for services rendered to the Spartan king Agesilaus was granted an estate near Olympia, at Scillus. In 371 Elis claimed Scillus, and Xenophon and his wife and two sons went to live in Corinth. In ca. 368 his exile was rescinded, and in ca. 366 he returned to Athens where he lived until his death. As an aristocrat, a friend of Socrates, and a member of the Socratic circle of intellectuals, he probably found things quite difficult after the restoration of "democracy," and so he left Athens at around 401

On the subject in question, he writes:

Nevertheless, although he [Socrates] was free from vice, if he saw and approved

of base conduct in [others], he would be open to censure. Well, when he found that Critias

loved Euthydemus and wanted to lead him astray, he tried to restrain him by saying that

it was mean and unbecoming in a gentleman to sue like a beggar to the object of his

affection, whose good opinion he coveted, stooping to ask a favor that it was wrong to

grant. As Critias paid no heed whatever to this protest, Socrates, it is said, exclaimed

in the presence of Euthydemus and many others, "Critias seems to have the feelings of

a pig: he can no more keep away from Euthydemus than pigs can help rubbing themselves

against stones." (Memorabilia, I. ii. 29 -30.)

The legendary Lacedaemonian king and lawgiver, Lycurgus, was very consistent in the rules he laid down for the proper personal conduct of the Spartans. When it came to the relationship between an Erastís (adult mentor) and his Eroménos (the young man in his charge), Xenophon tells us that the Spartan Constitution Lycurgus instituted made it very clear that:

If someone, being himself an honest man, admired a boy's soul and tried to make of

him an ideal friend without reproach and to associate with him, he [Lycurgus] approved,

and believed in the excellence of this kind of training. But if it was clear that the attraction

lay in the boy's outward beauty, he banned the connection as an abomination; and thus

he caused mentors to abstain from boys no less than parents abstain from sexual intercourse

with their children and brothers and sisters with each other. (Lacedaemonian Constitution,

II. 13.)

Much has been made by the Hellene-hating homophiles about Zeus's "abduction" of the boy Ganymede to be his cupbearer on Mount Olympus. Missing the point completely, they invariably portray the abduction as "the indecency of Zeus" (ék Diós archómestha). Keeping in mind that Zeus is without a doubt the most heterosexual of gods, the abduction only makes sense when, as Xenophon explains,

[I]n the case of Ganymede, it was not his person but his spiritual character that influenced

Zeus to carry him up to Olympus. ... [as in] Homer [who] pictures us Achilles looking

upon Patroclus not as the object of his passion but as a comrade, and in this spirit signally

avenging his death. So we have songs telling also how Orestes, Pylades, Theseus, Peirithous,

and many other illustrious demi-gods wrought glorious deeds of valor side by side, not

because they shared a common bed but because of mutual admiration and respect.

(Symposium, VIII. 30 - 32.)